Alpamayo Coaching on Tour meets Matt Potter at the University of Bath for an experience of role reversal, and to tackle the question of 'what's the point?'

Alpamayo Coaching on Tour ‘let the train take the strain’ in journeying to the venue of the most recent gig at the University of Bath.  I was there to meet Matt Potter, now a Prize Research Fellow at the University, previously a student in Chemistry at the University of Southampton.

Matt met me as I got off the bus and there followed a few minutes conversation as we walked back to his office.  In those few minutes I found out that he was married to the girl he had known during school and that they had a young daughter, Abi, just about to enter school.  I found out how Emma, his wife, was changing up her job to better accommodate work and life, in preparation for when Abi starts school in September.  As part of this conversation I learnt something of Emma’s preferences and motivations.  As we entered the building, I found out how Bath was teaching chemistry without categorising the learning under the traditional headings of organic, inorganic and physical chemistry, and the benefits and challenges of doing so.

By the time we reached Matt’s office, no more than five minutes from the bus stop, I had found out a lot and was left with a couple of simple thoughts.  First was the awareness of how little I knew about Matt, despite being in the same work place for around 8 years.  There was an associated feeling of guilt connected to this, which was how simple it is to find out a lot about another person by inviting them to tell you something of their story, and then listening as they do so.  The guilt came from wondering whether I had not done that very well when I worked in Southampton during the time when Matt was first an undergraduate, then a postgraduate student.  A more powerful awareness was of my mind fizzing and crackling with connections being made with my newfound knowledge, and excitement in anticipation over how our discussion was going to unfold.  How it unfolded over the next two hours is shared here, with Matt’s approval.  The story telling was every bit as exciting and wide ranging as I anticipated, based on the expectations set by the conversation on that short stroll from bus stop to office.

Matt and I modelling a contrasting style in stripes on campus at the University of Bath

Once we sat down, I spent a moment or two giving Matt the back story to Alpamayo Coaching on Tour.  As I was doing so, I realised that I was not feeling entirely comfortable, and I felt like I needed to understand the cause to avoid it being a distraction in our conversation.  I recruited Matt in the co-exploration of what was going on.  I experienced one of the simplest yet most important benefits of coaching in doing so.  Having spoken my thoughts out loud so that both of us heard them, I was able process them in a way that was simply impossible when they were just rattling around my head.  There is something in hearing your own thoughts, and a key part of that is sharing them in the company of someone else giving you their full attention.  Through doing this I realised I was feeling a little unsettled being back in an academic office of the sort which had been home to me for nearly 20 years.  The desk, the round table and chairs for tutorials, the white boards, the shelves all triggered memories.  Some good, some less good.  With good humour we talked a little about this and in those moments, I also realised that I was feeling a response to the role reversal in our conversation.  I was in Matt’s space; he is the academic and although I was not a chemistry tutee I was in some way seeking to benefit from his wisdom.  All these small disturbances were settled simply by being able to speak about them out loud and, having done so, make any appropriate adjustments!

I have a confession to make.  I got a bit of writer’s block when I reached the end of the previous paragraph.  It stemmed from wondering how to tell the story of our conversation.  The obvious way is to do the telling chronologically yet something has been stopping me wanting to do it that way.  I think it was because our conversation had ranged far and wide and in a manner that was far from linear.  In fact, Matt does not have a great relationship with what he experiences as linear thinking.  It seemed wrong to tell the story with a linear narrative which was not in keeping with the way the story unfolded.  Yet to tell it any other way risks becoming chaotic and difficult to follow. 

Procrastination seemed the only solution, so I put the project down for a day or two before thinking ‘What is the point in procrastinating?  Just get on with it and see what unfolds!’  And there it was, the unifying thread to the narrative, right there in front of me.  The language I used to challenge my own hesitation is the same as Matt used on a number of occasions while telling his story – ‘what is the point?’  What changed throughout was the different way he located the emphasis in this sentence:  WHAT is the point?; What IS the point? What is THE point? What is the POINT?

Matt has been completely clear on ‘What is THE point?’ in relation to his career goal.  From the outset he has known ‘I want to be a Professor, with a big research group’ and he acknowledges that in the early days the need for ‘big’ was to allow him to pursue all of his ideas.  His early inspiration derived from his parents who imbued in him an interest in environmental issues, based in particular on his Dad’s interest in preserving nature.  His parents were both successful white-collar professionals in audit and accountancy, progressing by the route of professional qualifications and experience at work rather than starting by going to University.  Despite not having gone to university themselves, they believed in the benefits that their children might experience from doing so.  As a consequence, Matt and his older sister Sophie grew up being supported in thinking about university and one after the other they became the first and second in the family to attend!

Matt clearly has huge respect for his sister’s intellectual capabilities as well as being aware that his own aspirations were driven, to some extent, by sibling rivalry.  Sophie went down the Biology route and Matt’s original interest was more towards Geography (Biology was not an option obviously!), until a good teacher and a growing realisation of what chemistry can actually offer in the real world encouraged him to focus there instead.  This importance of real-world application has been a guiding principle for Matt in his choice of study and research, guiding him just as much now as it did back then. 

He talked with great candour about how his mild sibling rivalry grew into what he called ‘hyper-competitiveness’ with the world in general.  Looking back Matt realises his ‘I have to win’ mindset played out particularly strongly is his studies as studying was his primary pursuit.  At the time of going to university he remembers his logic was very clear ‘go to university, be the best, get the degree done’.  He flirted with Oxford as a possibility but was put off by believing ‘I didn’t know of many people who were happy studying there.  They sort of have the passion ground out of them’.  He had another reason for not wanting to go.  He feared he might not be the best if he went there, so looked at other universities where ‘winning’ was a more likely outcome for him.  One such was the University of Southampton where, as well as thinking he had the chance to be the best there, he was attracted by the Masters in Chemistry with Maths degree, which he liked as it allowed him to operate on two intellectual fronts.

His arrival in Southampton was the point where our paths crossed.  I remembered quite vividly his presence which he described as ‘being a bit irritating in general, arriving at lectures a little late, sitting in the front row and keeping to myself’.  I remember a young man with a ponytail, a wispy beard, and a big black trench coat which was part of his persona.  It allowed for entrance into spaces that was part flourish and part flounce and then, once arrived it appeared to function as an exclusion zone, keeping a separation between him and his environment.  Despite his occasional best-efforts, Matt was likeable and appeared to be understood by his peers, who accepted him as he was and the fact that he would typically do what he set out to do – to get the best results in class.  I remember him having a way of cocking his head to one side and looking askance when he was about to challenge what I was saying.  That same mannerism is part of his present-day body language too.  While it still carries a sense of challenge now, it appears more to signal his interest in what he is hearing.  Thinking as I write this, I realise that although past versions of Matt held strong views, and were incredibly focussed and single minded, they were never arrogant or disrespectful.  That’s quite a neat trick, to achieve the former without giving a sense of the latter.

Matt looks back at his undergraduate and early postgraduate time as a period that was difficult for him.  Ensuring he was always top of the class came at a cost.  He described how ‘I did not get on well with people.  My punishing and single-minded study schedule resulted in me becoming increasingly emotionless.  It felt like I was sociopathic’.  He acknowledged that for some time he could not see the value of other people’s opinions and in some regard went through a stage where he was questioning everything other people said or thought, with the primary question being ‘what is the POINT?’ and, at least I imagined, this would have been supported by body language and feelings related to anger and frustration.

A day or two before meeting Matt, I had sent him a few questions just to get his thinking going.  One was ‘what metaphor might you use to describe yourself?’ and he had been prompted to think of a metaphor to describe what he was like as a under- and postgraduate.  He said he had been an uncut gemstone of some sort, sharp edged, the richness of the stone hidden by an abrasive surface.  It’s interesting that through this metaphor Matt noticed the abrasive nature of his rough surfaces, and the promise of richness within. 

Fast forward about 18 years to the point where I am sitting alongside the contemporary version of Matt and it is clear many of those sharp edges are now smoother.  The same cocking-of-the-head and quizzical sideways look is still there, now with a more overt sense of interest and humour.  He is still just as competitive as he always has been, but the intention has been reframed.  Now the purpose of his competitiveness is to do well, it is no longer about beating other people.  He said ‘competition still remains a driver for me.  A sense of competition keeps me motivated and on my learning edge.  Without it there is a risk of contentment, and I always hold the view that if I am content then I am also stagnant.  I hope never to be my version of content’.

Wrapped up in that personal ‘life view’ is Matt’s fire, and his ice.  His goal is unchanged in that he still is 100% clear on wanting to be a Professor, running a big research group.  What has shifted for him is the reason for having a big group is not so they can all work on his ideas as his vision used to be.  Now he wants a big group to allow him to work on his ideas, and to collaborate with people in pursuit of their ideas.  He now values differences of opinion and no longer has the query ‘WHAT is the point?’ anytime someone shares a view, one different from his own.  He said of his world view and personal experience now ‘Over a period of time talking to people across different fields of research I have discovered ideas that are really cool.  The more people I speak to the more ideas I get and what I really enjoy doing now is making connections with other people, and on behalf of other people, in research and personal development contexts’.  For me there was something of a shift here to Matt asking ‘what IS the point?’ which to my ear anyway suggests being more open to the other person’s view of what the point might be.  It appears to be a form of emphasis that invites, and which demonstrates curiosity and openness to possibility.  That’s quite an evolution from Matt the under/ postgraduate to Matt in 2024, and a fascinating one to experience.  It’s not that he is better now than he was, just different and more open to the world around him.  How then did this change happen?

Zooming back in time to the middle of Matt’s first degree where there was one of those serendipitous (still one of my favourite words in the language and one that describes so much of what is good in science, despite the best efforts of researchers claiming that they know it was going to be that way all along!) experiences.  Matt was looking to sort out some research experience at the end of his second year and set about door stopping Jon Essex in his office.  Jon is a leading researcher in computational chemistry which tends to be a ‘go to’ area for researchers with equal interest in chemistry and maths (this might be stereotyping but I’ll go with it anyway!).  Jon was not in at the time Matt knocked on his door but Robert Raja, his next-door neighbour, was in his office.  The two of them found themselves in a conversation leading to Matt joining Robert’s group for the summer instead.  Robert is a well-known materials chemist whose work in catalysis and carbon capture attracts considerable interest from industrial partners.  His group is one where the research outcomes tend to have a clearer connection to their possible impact in the real world than some other areas of research.  This connected to Matt’s desire to have a real-world impact, and he also enjoyed the variety of the work he experienced.  As part of his degree he did end up working with Jon on computational chemistry and was surprised that he didn’t enjoy it, despite appreciating its significance.  As a consequence, when it came to deciding on who to work with for his PhD, the decision was an easy one and he went to work with Robert. 

His PhD went along in a similar yet different way to his undergraduate studies.  Now success was not measured in exam results, instead it was in research outcomes.  It was less obvious who he could compare himself with.  In some degree this suited Matt and he succeeded, for the most part working independently on his own project.  Looking back, Matt without trying to shift responsibility, observed at the time there were no post-doctoral researchers in Robert’s group, so no role models for him to use in relation to his next career step.  To some extent this meant his world views were not challenged and he was able to succeed without needing to draw on any resources outside his own.  He was not exposed to different approaches to relationships which might have encouraged him to challenge his own world views at the time.  He smiled at the thought ‘I wonder how I would like to supervise a PhD student who is the same as the way that I used to be back then?!’  Just the level of self-awareness in relation to his development spoke volumes about the choices he has made in support of smoothing down some of the gemstone’s rough edges.

His next move was to apply to post-doctoral research positions in the US.  A little like rock bands of a few years ago, there tends to be a view that a researcher aspiring to a full-time academic position needs to conquer America, or at least a different research system to the one in the UK.  Matt moved out to Georgia Institute of Technology to work on carbon capture with Chris Jones.  Here he had several formative experiences.

On Day 1 of being in the lab in Georgia he remembers Chris Jones asking him if he had taken a Myers Briggs test (MBTI).  With a smile Matt remembers that his initial thought about that was, you’ve guessed it, ‘What’s the POINT?’  Perhaps because he was a newbie he kept a lid on it saying no, he had not, and what might he want to do one for?  Chris said because he ran a very big group and he had to be realistic about how much time he could spend understanding his researchers and the differences between them.  He felt MBTI offered an insight he could use to support different people in different ways, matching his interaction with them to maximise motivation and to lead each member of his team most effectively.  For whatever reason this interaction kick started a process of Matt becoming much more interested in the different needs of different people. 

Over time in Georgia, he also realised he was learning what it was like to be the outsider, in a community that was much more diverse than he had experienced while growing up and while at university.  From his viewpoint Matt reflected perhaps his experience of the world up until then had been somewhat sheltered.  Rather than pushing him towards a greater sense of isolation he described this experience as helping him to greater levels of empathy based on a growing appreciation of the value of difference and an increased tolerance of scientific ideas and general philosophy of living that differed from his own.

Having mentioned Matt’s exposure to MBTI I am going to invite you to partake in a bit of time travel to a point in 2019 where Matt and I met after not seeing each other for around 5 years , once again in Southampton (more on this later).  He attended my first every delivery of a two-day workshop I had designed called ‘Develop from Within’, a programme to support the personal and professional development of post-doctoral researchers.  It was great to see him again, and a surprise on two fronts:  I had not known he was back in Southampton, and I confess to holding the assumption that he would not be interested in reflecting on the similarities and differences in his behaviour preferences!  How wrong I was and now, having heard about how his perspective was changed while in the US, I understand why. 

What was not a surprise was how the Lumina Spark model we were using as the basis of discussion showed up competitiveness as a strong asset for Matt.  It is so clearly something very important and powerful from him, and great to see that his changed life perspective has not altered this.  Instead, it has helped him to harness it in support of himself and others, and to utilise it more effectively in concert with his many other behavioural assets.  Matt had his own memory of these sessions which he saw as further steps along the way of knowing that ‘there are other ways of thinking (aside from my own)!’

It was great having Matt as part of a group of researchers engaging in conversations about what makes them tick in a way that few, if any, had experienced before, at least in their professional setting.  Little did I know at the time that Matt and the rest of this group were at the vanguard of a rich and diverse community of academic researchers who have now benefitted from ‘Develop from Within’.  It is interesting and rewarding to reflect on how we have each had an influence on the independent journey of the other.

It's way overdue to return to a very important person in Matt’s life.  Emma has been part of his life since they met at school around 18 years ago, and they have been married for ten years which according to my calculations means that they married just before moving to Georgia.  She has ploughed her own furrow as Matt pursued his goal with single mindedness and drive.  Actually, I should correct that to dual mindedness as Matt said ‘my bandwidth has always been fully taken up with my relationship with Emma and work’, this comment coming on the back of my asking what other interests he had.  He talked about how ‘the pathway to research can be quite selfish, and I have had to learn to allow myself to make concessions to my family life’.  In the past those concessions might not have been quite as generous as they could have been as Emma pointed out looking back at their time in Georgia.  Matt looks back at this period as being truly influential on his development.  While Emma recognises this, she also thinks that Matt holds something of a rose-tinted view of the life experience they shared there.  Her justification for this is that over the 18-month period they were in Georgia, they spent only three days taking in the sights!

The concessions he makes to family life necessarily changed significantly around five years ago with the birth of their little girl.  Of course, this has required adjustments which Matt has willingly made without losing determination to achieve his research goals.  It was interesting that he described these adjustments occurring within his existing bandwidth of operations, rather than trying to grow the bandwidth to allow space for being a father.  To me his choice was the wiser action, reducing the risk of burn out by taking on more and more.  Coming up this autumn their baby girl has now reached school age and family adaptations include Emma taking on a job that will ensure she is available during the holidays and Matt is adapting to become a better early starter to be available at the start of the day for school runs.  As with all the other forms of difference he is discovering, he is finding there are other ways to work effectively, not just his long hours and night owl model!  I realised that the majority of our conversation was about the internal and external influences on Matt, and they have been many and varied.  Looming large amongst them have been the influence of three particular ladies, his sister, his wife, and his daughter and it just seemed appropriate to draw attention to them here!

Going back in time once again, we reconnect with Matt’s story as he came to the close of his time in Georgia.  He was enticed by the offer of a Senior Research Fellow position back in Southampton, once again with Robert Raja.  He felt a loyalty to Southampton alongside other influences which included ‘better the devil you know’, and time to be a ‘bigger fish in a smaller pond’.  Matt felt a distinction between his experience in the US and the UK.  In the former he felt he had been permanently (and successfully) ‘proving myself’ while in returning to the latter he felt more comfortable in the sociable environment that he was familiar with in Southampton.

His use of the word ’comfort’ caused my ears to prick up as I wondered if this was another mental state, like his version of contentment, which could lead to a sense of stagnation.  The answer appears to be both no, and yes.  It was ‘no’ because Matt was successful in his research and built collaborations that are still important to him now.  He got more involved in teaching too, designing modules from scratch as well as delivering them.  It was ‘yes’ because at the same time he felt an increasing isolation and didn’t enjoy a sense of the progressive narrowing of his research into an ever-smaller niche.  He was unsuccessful in applying for full time positions at the University and felt the burden of what he experienced as rejection.  Whether valid or not he had the feeling that there was something of the ‘why buy the cow when the milk is free?’ going on.

Rather than letting a developing sense of bitterness take hold he took action in the form of a move to a PDRA position based at Harwell, in the UK Catalysis Hub.  Immediately the numbness he had been feeling in Southampton disappeared.  He started to love his work again and in a matter of weeks was buoyed up by his familiar flow of ideas.  With the benefit of hindsight, he recognises that he could have taken more proactive action while in Southampton to create the conditions he needs to thrive.  On the back of his learning in the US these conditions now definitely include connections with people at a similar stage of development, and having the opportunity to engage with new ideas from people with different expertise, perspectives and approaches.

PDRA positions, by the nature of their short term contract, do come to a close so a key part of any PDRA’s thinking is the question of ‘what’s next?’.  Being concurrently successful in present day research and in answering ‘what’s next?’ is a perpetual challenge for this community.  For Matt he wanted to explore what was right for him and Emma, and now their daughter too.  He asked Emma if she was okay with him applying anywhere and then acted on her wish to remain in England.  He drew up a spreadsheet of all possibilities and they discussed the pros and cons together.

Interestingly in that first pass Matt did not include the University of Bath.  A close colleague Alex had gone there, and Matt’s idea was that their work was too similar for them to both thrive at the same institution.  Fortunately, Alex took a different view and kept Matt up to date with opportunities and eventually Matt submitted an application to a vacancy in Bath.  Although not successful he really fell in love with what he experienced in Bath and as a result it became the number one entry on his spreadsheet!  Another opportunity came up, one for a University of Bath Prize Fellowship which is described on their website as ‘research focused positions for visionary scientists to kick-start their academic career in a supportive and well-resourced research environment.’  Matt applied and experienced what he felt was a ‘really positive interview’.  He was offered the Fellowship and despite knowing he had done well was surprised when the offer was made.  Looking back from his viewpoint today he reflected that the surprise he felt on the day of the offer told him something important about his sense of self-worth at that time. 

So here he is now Dr Matt Potter, Prize Fellow at the University of Bath.  I confess that Matt pre-empted my query of asking what a Prize Fellow was by saying his Dad had wondered if it just meant he was a ‘jolly good chap!’.  I had to admit it was exactly the thought which had crossed my mind, and of course this descriptor is absolutely true!  More pertinent is the University’s own description of Prize Fellow (shared above) and also the anticipated trajectory at the end of the Fellowship is the holder will take up a permanent position.  Another step closer to Matt achieving his goal.

We could have talked for hours more.  It really was that sort of moment in time where the conversation sparked all sorts of ideas and avenues for exploration.  We did eventually come to an end though and I need to do the same here.  Matt captured his evolution as starting from a place where his values of hard work, delivery and action led to him setting sometimes unreasonable expectations of himself and others, particularly limiting in relation to others as he found it difficult to understand people who did not see the world as he did.  He still absolutely holds those values but now he knows that while these lead him to excellence, other people have different ways of achieving the same high standards.  He talks about ‘people power’ in achieving research outcomes.  He knows the importance of good listening as well being able to defend his views.  He appreciates differences in leadership style and the importance of ‘giving people their range’.  He now measures success by impactful work and person/ team development, reflecting an important mindset shift for him, from either/ or to both/ and.

I am left with a number of reflections.  First, what a privileged position it is to be trusted enough to listen to someone as they narrate aspects of the story of their life.  Second, I am thinking of Matt’s metaphor of being a rough gemstone with abrasive edges when he was younger.  It is tempting to go to the obvious and say now he is more polished and multifaceted with all the meaning which might be attached to this image.  Perhaps there is something meaningful in thinking of Matt’s evolution in this way.  What causes me to hesitate is the suggestion that he was not just fine as a rough-edged gemstone, because for me he was.  Perhaps what has changed is his acceptance of self, creating the opportunity for a greater acceptance of others.  Thirdly, I am a born again fan of the enquiry ‘What’s the point?’ provided it is asked with an openness to the possibility there might be something worth listening to in other people’s answers.

Alpamayo Coaching on Tour is an experience that is all about storytelling and story sharing with people who I have shared time with in the past, either as colleagues, tutees, or coachees. If you would like to be part of the tour please do get in touch with me. My 'day job' of coaching also involves being interested in the way that other people narrate their stories. If you are interested in telling your story within a coaching partnership I will be pleased to hear from you too.